Why is English such a strange language ??

[Gurra100]

Why is English so strange !?

Your language is a difficult one for us here in Scandinavia. We think you could simplify it  a lot.

Some of your words just doesn´t sound right for us

Like the crazy expression "back and forth".  In sweden we say "fram och tillbaka" We think "frame and tobacco"
would be a better
translation. It sounds MUCH better in our ears.

And another example:  The word "whipping" like in "-She´s whipping the cream" also sounds strange. In sweden it´s called
"vispa" So "-She´s  whispering the cream " would make a lot better sense in our ears.

And just the word "speed" ! What is that !! In Swedish it´s called  "fart" We think that "-There is a high fart limit on the highway" sounds nice !

We also have a very nice expression in Sweden. It goes like this: "Pricken över I" That means something like , the last touch of perfection. Why don´t you use it ?
You just could say: "The prick over the eye" Beautiful !

And the word hook ! Its very nicely called "krok" in Swedish !  I think you already have that word in your vocabulare. So why don´t use it ?
" -Darling, we need a couple of new crooks under the kitchen sink "

And why do you call the Swedish "tand-kött" "gums" ? It should really be "tooth-meat" you know.

And a "flod-häst" should be "flood-horse" not "hippo"! What is that ??

Not to to mention the strangesounding word "peacock" It shold be "on-bird" Its called "på-fågel" in Swedish, wich of course is the best sounding language.

And "vegetables" should just naturally be "green-things" It´s the beautiful sounding word "grön-saker" in Swedish.

You should also  realize that "octopus" is a very strange word to use for "bläck-fisk" It should be "ink-fish" Much more natural and mature.

So I really expect to see those changes next time I read an english text. And don´t give me any excuses !

[Gurra100]

Clarification: The on-bird is very obvious the opposite of the kipper who swims in the water. The kipper is sometimes off ! (Source: Faulty Towers ). The on-bird is always fresh !

[Gnomon]

So I really expect to see those changes next time I read an english text. And don´t give me any excuses !

Be careful what you wish for. I suspect that one reason English is such a crazy jumbled-up language is that it went through an Imperial period. Some modern languages, such as English and Spanish, went through a transformation from simple and logical to complex and crazy as the original language was spread around the world to subject colonies. As a result, they picked-up bits and pieces of other languages in no particular order. So, if you want English to become more like "Norwedish", just invite the English to colonize your country. In no time at all, the Imperial language would become "Enorwedish".

On the other hand, if Erik the Red and Leif Eriksson had established permanent colonies in the New World, we might all be speaking a jumbled-up version of NorwedIndish. 

[Hueglow]

Spanish's colonialism didn't prevent it from becoming almost phonetic, in stark contrast to English. People in Spain thought the language should be simplified, so they removed things they didn't need. English didn't make any reforms like that, so it has complicated spellings like "Psychography" (which could have been turned into sicografy) and retains letters that have long lost their purpose, like the mysterious W in "answer" and "who", or the strange word "tough", in which, of its five letters, only one makes any sense.
Spanish does have an unfair advantage over English, and it's that it has less sounds than letters to represent them - it has 24 sounds, while English has almost twice that number. But it could still be a lot better. French is also wastes a lot of ink ("aient" is pronounced like a single vowel).
But I guess Gurra was talking about something very different, which is how people find English strange when they learn it, because it's different from their own language.
Well, I should find English strange too, because I can contrast words like psychography to words in my own language, like psicografia. A unique sound for every letter! Why do we need to learn that and be reminded of not pronouncing the P, instead of making the English write correctly?
 English needs a spelling reform nau!

[Gnomon]

Spanish's colonialism didn't prevent it from becoming almost phonetic, in stark contrast to English. People in Spain thought the language should be simplified, so they removed things they didn't need.

I'm guessing : English verbal irregularity, and spelling in particular, may be a historical result of the traditional independence of cultural regions and lack of absolute authority at the top of government and culture. I don't know about other cultures, but English speakers have always been rather casual about spelling. Spelling conventions mostly came about by accident rather than by a rational process. Popular writings, such as the King James Bible and Shakespeare's works had more effect on spelling conventions than any academic edicts.

Academics have indeed proposed simpler spelling schemes for English words, but with traditional insouciance they have been ignored by the public. Rational improvements, like the Decimal System and non-QWERTY keyboards and Esperanto, just don't catch-on among English speakers. Is that indifference to logic a cultural defect, or a positive sign of independent mindedness?

[Gnomon]

I'm reading a book by Steven Pinker, THE STUFF OF THOUGHT : Language as a Window into Human Nature. One section reminded me of this thread.

<< In Crazy English, the language maven Richard Lederer calls some of them [paradoxical patterns] to our attention:
If adults commit adultery, do infants commit infancy? If olive oil is made from olives, what do they make baby oil from? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? >>

As I theorized before, English speakers may be more comfortable with lingustic non-conformity, because of their cultural attitudes toward authority. But where did they get those attitudes, and why are they different from those of other European cultures?One possible cultural culprit may be Protestant religion. Not just protestant, but radical Calvinist protestantism. Sure, Luther protested the authority of the pope, but Calvin started a rift and revolution that continues to this day. Most of the frequently fragmenting Protestant religious sects in the United States have historical ties to Calvinism. That may have something to do with why American English especially is so unorthodox in spelling, syntax, and vocabulary

Have any non-native English speakers in Europe noticed a correlation between Calvinist cultures and crazy-quilt languages, or between Catholic cultures and uniform languages? [/]

[Hueglow]

Are the Netherlands a Calvinist country?
Apparently, they did many spelling reforms in the past century, so I guess they must accept the authority of a language academy. English doesn't have one.
If you think about it, that sounds more correct. After all, languages weren't invented and don't have patents or copyrights, so they shouldn't have owners who can decide what is the correct way to use it.
But the results of having a language academy can be better than leaving everything with no rules.

[Gnomon]

Obviously we haven't found any good reason why English spelling, idioms, and vocabulary are so irregular. So I guess reason had little to do with. Natural languages are the product of random evolution. But the question remains, why hasn't human Culture improved on Nature in the most vital aspect of culture?

In THE STORY OF ENGLISH, by McCrum, Cran, & McNeil, the authors are stumped by the same question. Besides being more idiomatic (idiosyncratic) than most languages, English spelling is largely non-phonetic :

"There are no fewer than thirteen spellings for sh : shoe; sugar; issue; mansion; mission; nation; suspicion; ocean; conscious; chaperon; schist; fuscia; and pshaw."

But it's not for lack of trying to standardize the language :

"In 1930, a Swedish philologist, R. E. Zachrisson, proposed an international language, essentially English, to be called Anglic. . . . In 1940, the British Simplified Spelling Society mounted a campaign for New Spelling. . ."

Here's Lincoln's Gettysburg Address in Anglic :

"Forskor and sevn yeerz agoe our faadherz braut forth on this kontinent a nuw naeshon, konseevd in liberti . . ."

[Yuk! Now I see why standardized spelling never caught on.]


"On the other hand, the English language has three characteristics that can be counted as assets in its world state. . . . the gender of every noun is determined by meaning . . . a grammar of great simplicity and flexibility. . . its teeming vocabulary*, 80 percent of which is foreign-born."


* English 500,000 words; German 185,000 words; French 100,000 words



PS---If you think English spelling is bad :

<< Studies carried out in China have shown that full literacy in the Chinese language requires a knowledge of only between three and four thousand characters.^[1] >>

But the Chinese dictionary has a total of 47,000 basic characters, as compared to 27 to 30 letters in the European dictionaries. Each logogram conveys a simple idea, equivalent to a phoneme or morpheme, but the meaning can change radically depending on the semantic context and the spoken accent. Their attempts to simplify the language have had mixed results.

[GJ (McG)]

...And the word hook ! Its very nicely called "krok" in Swedish !  I think you already have that word in your vocabulare. So why don´t use it ?
" -Darling, we need a couple of new crooks under the kitchen sink "

Well, we do have a saying that incorporates both...  "Hook or Crook", as in "We'll get their treasure by hook or by crook."
 
If I'm not mistaken, the staff with a semi-circle at the end of it, which is carried by sheep herders, is called a shepherd's crook.
 
To make your English problem even worse, here in America we have several regional terms.  For example, one that seems to really irritate folks from another part of the country is "Soda" versus "Pop".  Originally it was called "Soda Pop", but half of the country just calls it soda, and the other half just calls it pop.  I have actually heard MANY arguments about this during my travels throughout the country!  (In parts of North Carolina people call ALL soft drinks "Coke".  Now that one really baffles me!  When you go into a restaurant you tell the waitress that you want a coke to drink, and then she'll ask you what kind, and then you tell her you want a Sprite, or a Mountain Dew, or possibly even a Coke!  How strange is that?)

[Gurra100]

[Carolina people call ALL soft drinks "Coke".  Now that one really baffles me!  When you go into a restaurant you tell the waitress that you want a coke to drink, and then she'll ask you what kind, and then you tell her you want a Sprite, or a Mountain Dew, or possibly even a Coke!  How strange is that?)

Really strange ! And in the most south of Sweden you order a "koka" and in the rest a "cola" There would be a problem with understanding if you said the wrong word.

Nice having you here  and seeing your rainbow dance again !

[Hueglow]

I always learned in school that the names were soda or soft drink. Is "pop" used in less important places?

[GJ (McG)]

I always learned in school that the names were soda or soft drink. Is "pop" used in less important places?

       Absolutely not!!!!!      
 
Pop is the common term here in my state, Ohio!!!!!!  So, quite naturally, I feel it is the "proper" and correct term to use!!!! 
 
I haven't found much rhyme or reason to which locations use soda or pop.  Pennsylvania is right beside Ohio, and they say soda.  I do think soda is more common than pop...  As I said, I'm pretty sure the original terminology was "soda-pop".  Maybe I"ll get ambitious enough to Google the origins.  Was soda-pop invented in the US?
 
It is actually rather amazing how "important" this particular word seems to be to people!  There are plenty of other coloquialisms, and no one really notices those... but when it comes to pop vs. soda people get very territorial about which one is "right".  Go figure! 

[GJ (McG)]

Hey...this is cool!  Apparently all or most of Canada calls it "pop"!!!!!!!!     (Canada is a pretty important place!)
This definition (from Wiki) even mentions my notation about some places calling all soft drinks "Coke".
 

A soft drink is a beverage that does not contain alcohol. Carbonated soft drinks are commonly known as pop, soda pop, soda, coke or tonic in various parts of the United States, pop in Canada, fizzy drinks or soft drinks in the United Kingdom and Australia^[1] and sometimes minerals in Ireland. The adjective soft specifies a lack of alcohol by way of contrast to the term "hard drink". The word drink, while nominally neutral, sometimes carries connotations of alcoholic content. Beverages like colas, flavored water, sparkling water, iced tea, sweet tea, lemonade, squash, and fruit punch are among the most common types of soft drinks, while hot chocolate, hot tea, coffee, milk, tap water, juice and milkshakes do not fall into this classification. Many carbonated soft drinks are optionally available in versions sweetened with sugars or with non-caloric sweeteners.

[Gurra100]

I got some thoughts regarding the English word "vacuum-cleaner" I sounds like you need to clean some heavy contaminated vacuums over there. In Sweden all our vacuums are clean by nature. By the way , if I translate the Swedish  word it would be  "dust-sucker" . Nice and easily understandable.

[nom]

Well your nordic vacuums may be clean, but... well... hmmm... I can't think of a "but". Sweden's pretty good isn't it? 
Anyway, we might want to suck up more than just dust. Other possibilities include dirt (like dust but heavier), lint, spilt coffee grinds, dog hair. So it seems our vacuum cleaners (that is, cleaners that operate using an induced vacuum rather than, say, sweeping) are more versatile than your "dust suckers". 

[Gurra100]

Anyway, we might want to suck up more than just dust. Other  possibilities include dirt (like dust but heavier), lint, spilt coffee  grinds, dog hair. So it seems our vacuum cleaners (that is, cleaners  that operate using an induced vacuum rather than, say, sweeping) are  more versatile than your "dust suckers". 

WOW. I´d better get one of those !

[RareBear]

English became English in the same way your Scandinavian tongue became what it is. We all migrated into our European localities and there are several ways  languages evolved and shook out some things while taking on others. Even here in the US there was a period where different letters had wholly different pronunciations--probably most notable is the the letter f used to be pronounced like a z. If you look at our founding documents you'll see a word like "president" being spelled "prefedent". Who changed that and when I know not. English in general is such a conglomeration because it was a sea-faring nation. It had native Gaelic and Welsh, took on Latin from Roman occupation, has influences from German and French and developed it's own strong power authority which could pass edicts to change the King's English to suit its whims. It's funny however that right in the heart of England are so many idiosyncratic differences which defy the official language rules. Cockney's will often substitute the letter "f" for the th sound or use V--like birfday instead of birthday and bruver instead of brother even though they'll spell both correctly. It's a weird world. Scandinavian is completely unintelligible to the English speaking world so who knows what skeletons lie in your closet?